User talk:Karinvanderlaag

Your submission at Articles for creation: sandbox (June 23)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Theroadislong was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to User:Karinvanderlaag/sandbox and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to User:Karinvanderlaag/sandbox, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Theroadislong (talk) 08:52, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Hello, Karinvanderlaag! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! Theroadislong (talk) 08:52, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: David Wicht (June 28)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Star Mississippi were:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:David Wicht and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you now believe the draft cannot meet Wikipedia's standards or do not wish to progress it further, you may request deletion. Please go to Draft:David Wicht, click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window, add "{{Db-g7}}" at the top of the draft text and click the blue "publish changes" button to save this edit.
• If you do not make any further changes to your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Star Mississippi 20:28, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:David Wicht has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:David Wicht. Thanks! Star Mississippi 20:32, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, I agree and will keep working on the article to make it ready to publish. Question: Can I save my changes without re-submitting everytime, as I would like to work on the article over a period of time and save changes as I go and then re-submit when I am fully ready?

Thanks again for your help

Karin van der Laag Karinvanderlaag (talk) 09:50, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Karinvanderlaag. Yes. Just hit publish and your changes will save. When you feel it's ready, click to re-submit. Let me know if I can help in any other way. Star Mississippi 15:10, 14 July 2022 (UTC)

Thank you Karinvanderlaag (talk) 12:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:David Wicht has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:David Wicht. Thanks! Greenman (talk) 18:30, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks Greenman. At the beginning of this process I was asked to disclose whether I was being paid or not and did so. I am not sure why it does not show up here. Can you help me add anything else that will show that I am a paid contributor for this page? I tried to add the template on my talk page as well. Thanks in advance, Karin van der Laag Karinvanderlaag (talk) 07:38, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi, the disclosure is not yet correct. The template that appears on the talk page says "InsertName ... has been paid by InsertName ..." which isn't very enlightening. The specifics of your own situation need to be included. Greenman (talk) 17:07, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

The contributor Karin van der Laag will be paid by David Wicht on completion of the article for Wikipedia. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 09:24, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you Karinvanderlaag (talk) 12:40, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

==

. ==

• {{Connected contributor (paid)|User1=InsertName|U1-employer=InsertName|U1-client=InsertName|U1-otherlinks=Insert relevant links, such as relevant affiliations, disclosures, article drafts written by paid editors, or diffs showing paid contributions being added to articles.}}.

Karinvanderlaag (talk) 12:19, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Good Day Greenman, Thank you for your message.

When I started the process I disclosed that I was a paid editor, but seem to have gone about it the wrong way.

David Wicht will pay me to write his Wikipedia page and FIlm Afrika the company will pay me to write their page. I do not work for either of them. I am a writer, Script Supervisor and Actress in the Film Industry.

I am not sure if i have disclosed this correctly now.

Can you help?

Thanks Karin Karinvanderlaag (talk) 12:22, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Hi @Karinvanderlaag. I copied it to your userpage. Courtesy heads up to @Greenman but I think I did it correctly. Star Mississippi 17:18, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you Mississipi! Karinvanderlaag (talk) 12:41, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: David Wicht (August 14)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Greenman were: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:David Wicht and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Greenman (talk) 08:19, 14 August 2022 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Film Afrika has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Film Afrika. Thanks! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:51, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: Film Afrika (October 28)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by S0091 was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:Film Afrika and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

S0091 (talk) 16:52, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: David Wicht (November 30)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed! Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Thatguy1987 was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:David Wicht and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Thatguy1987 (talk) 14:31, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:David Wicht

Hello, Karinvanderlaag. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:David Wicht, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Drafts that have not been edited for six months may be deleted, so if you wish to retain the page, please edit it again or request that it be moved to your userspace.

If the page has already been deleted, you can request it be undeleted so you can continue working on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia. FireflyBot (talk) 13:01, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

I re-edited the page a few days ago and resubmitted it. It is now being reviewed once more. Thank you. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 11:56, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

hello, I want to help you out on this, I added the infobox and corrected part of the filmography, so you'll be able to do the rest of it. Filmography don't usually have ref, and producteur should be mentionned after the movie example

• 2005: Duma: productor

you can look into articles of your favourite actors or other person to check their page to help you write. There's lot of sources too Veganpurplefox (talk) 13:30, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

if you can take like 4 reliable sources with significant coverage of him and improve the draft it would be better. I learned a lot with making my own Drafts and how it is made I wouldn't have put on submission, but you can improve it Veganpurplefox (talk) 13:32, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I will take a look. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 14:34, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:David Wicht has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:David Wicht. Thanks! Robert McClenon (talk) 00:05, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

@Robert McClenon there were some shenanigans going on here with the move, but they had nothing to do with @Karinvanderlaag's editing Star Mississippi 02:54, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

User:Star Mississippi - I thought so. All that I did was to leave a template message that I leave on a draft that was moved from article space to draft space. The message was not really meant to be addressed to any one editor, but to anyone reviewing or editing the page. I thought that there had been COI editing and maybe other misconduct. The note was left on the talk page of Karinvanderlaag because Twinkle thought that they were the submitter. I wasn't trying to figure out who was doing what. Robert McClenon (talk) 04:20, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Gotcha, thanks @Robert McClenon. I misread If you do not understand why this article was sent back to draft space, please ask the reviewer rather than simply resubmitting. as saying they had moved it and it was moved back. Need more coffee. Star Mississippi 12:31, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Yes, User:Star Mississippi. That's a template message, {{sentback}}, that I put on almost any page that was draftified, telling editors not to move-war it back into article space. As we know, if an article is move-warred back into article space after being draftified, AFD is usually the way to resolve the issue. Anyway, you and I both knew that there was some sort of disruption with the article. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:46, 13 September 2023 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: David Wicht (September 15)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reason left by Cabrils was:  The comment the reviewer left was: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:David Wicht and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

Cabrils (talk) 00:25, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Dear Cabrils

Thank you for your comments.

I will re-look at the article with your suggestions. As regards being paid, I have mentioned this a number of times on my talk page so I am not sure why it is not showing up. Greenman asked me this question already in August 2022 and I stated clearly on this page that I would be paid as well as adding the "connected contributor" paragraph.

I will persevere and get back to you.

Thanks for your help

Kind Regards

Karin van der Laag Karinvanderlaag (talk) 06:52, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:Film Afrika has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:Film Afrika. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 15:29, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Draft:Film Afrika

If this is the first article that you have created, you may want to read the guide to writing your first article.

You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.

A tag has been placed on Draft:Film Afrika requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section G12 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appears to be an unambiguous copyright infringement. This page appears to be a direct copy from https://filmafrika.com/. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images taken from other web sites or printed material, and as a consequence, your addition will most likely be deleted. You may use external websites or other printed material as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. This part is crucial: say it in your own words. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously and persistent violators will be blocked from editing.

If the external website or image belongs to you, and you want to allow Wikipedia to use the text or image — which means allowing other people to use it for any reason — then you must verify that externally by one of the processes explained at Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials. The same holds if you are not the owner but have their permission. If you are not the owner and do not have permission, see Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission for how you may obtain it. You might want to look at Wikipedia's copyright policy for more details, or ask a question here.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Jay 💬 19:53, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi Jay

I am in the process of writing this article and was not aware that it was already "published". I am of course not intending to publish it with direct comments from the film afrika website. That would be ludicrous.

I understood that I was editing this page in private. I am not sure how this happened. Please could you help me with this and return this page to a draft space where i thought it was?? Karinvanderlaag (talk) 07:47, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

I am working on the draft as we speak Karinvanderlaag (talk) 07:50, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Please show me the direct copy from the Film Afrika website?

I asked for my original draft written in 2022 to be undeleleted.

My second draft copy had information from the Film Afrika website that I was in the process of re-working while I waited for my original 2022 draft to be undeleted which I see it now has been. The draft I started in 2024 is now null and void and no longer required. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 07:53, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

There are no circumstances where copyright information, once discovered, may remain on any part of Wikipedia, even transiently, with the very tiny exception of an administrator redacting that information and removing it from public view. Very short attributed and cited quotations are allowed. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:12, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

The drafts were never published. I had restored your 2022 draft twice - once in 2023 and now again earlier this month. Not sure where the confusion lies. Jay 💬 09:58, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Correct declaration of paid contributons

I see that you are anticipating payment from David Wicht and from Film Africa. I=y seems that you have not made those pad editing declarations correctly, though I believe this is not deliberate.

Please read WP:PAID carefully.

There are two declarations you need to make for each article where you are compensated:

• {{Paid}} on your user page, with all parameters filled out carefully
• {{Connected contributor (paid)}} on the article talk page, with all parameters filled out carefully. Please do not omits the "EH" parameter.

It is important to make corrections to your declarations at once, please. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you.

I don't know how to attach these declarations to my pages.

Could you please guide me through the process? Karinvanderlaag (talk) 08:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

You are being paid to edit here and to get it right. You have all the information at your disposal already. There is no additional guidance anyone can give e you, except to take your time to understand what you are reading. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:38, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

What Timtrent may be telling you is that now you are here, you may as well start helping out in articles or drafts outside of your paid editing scope, and you'll find more friendly interaction. Jay 💬 10:07, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Thanks Jay. Do I do this from the main page and choose random articles or are there other ways? I would like to learn the proper route.

Thanks

Karin Karinvanderlaag (talk) 15:45, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Your submission at Articles for creation: David Wicht (May 20)

Your recent article submission to Articles for Creation has been reviewed. Unfortunately, it has not been accepted at this time. The reasons left by Timtrent were: Please check the submission for any additional comments left by the reviewer. You are encouraged to edit the submission to address the issues raised and resubmit after they have been resolved.

• If you would like to continue working on the submission, go to Draft:David Wicht and click on the "Edit" tab at the top of the window.
• If you do not edit your draft in the next 6 months, it will be considered abandoned and may be deleted.
• If you need any assistance, or have experienced any untoward behavior associated with this submission, you can ask for help at the Articles for creation help desk, on the reviewer's talk page or use Wikipedia's real-time chat help from experienced editors.

🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:36, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:David Wicht has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:David Wicht. Thanks! 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 08:41, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:David Wicht has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:David Wicht. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 08:42, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Soliciting Wikipedia editors for Paid work

STOP - You have solicited me for paid article creation. Under no circumstances do that to any editor ever again. I predict doing so will result in a block. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 09:20, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

I was not soliciting you for paid work. I was trying to understand how articles get through the maze of unpaid editors. I was asking whether an unpaid editor would help get my article in shape. Do not ever accuse me of this kind of wrong doing. It is libellous and very dangerous to my name. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Making these kind of accusations against me will result in me asking for you to be blocked. Be very careful. Your deletion of my article was improper to say the least. Uninformed and ignorant.

Please do your research Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:26, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I am a celebrity actress in South Africa with a SAFTA (equivalent to the BAFTA) awards for my character as MAGGIE which theroadislong described as a small part in Isidingo. I have worked with Richard E Grant on The Story of an African Farm with Boris Kodjoe and Tront Espen Seim on Cape Town written by Deon Meyer and for various German, French and Dutch companies as Casting Director, actor and Script Supervisor. I have directed events where I have been onstage with the late President Nelson Mandela.

Do your research Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:29, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

None of that makes you notable in Wikipedia terms unless it has received significant coverage in reliable sources. No research is required, Wikipedia articles are based on what reliable independent sources have reported, NOT what you tell us. Theroadislong (talk) 13:37, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I have asked for this page to be reinstated so that I can add these sources. Is this allowed or does someone else have to add the sources? Assuming that the page will be re-instated? Karinvanderlaag (talk) 15:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Please explain any relationship with Gihan Jayaweera

This may be personal or professional. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 09:24, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

I have no knowledge of this person Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:24, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

AfC notification: Draft:David Wicht has a new comment

I've left a comment on your Articles for Creation submission, which can be viewed at Draft:David Wicht. Thanks! Theroadislong (talk) 12:41, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

COI clean up edit.

Hello @Karinvanderlaag, Insw your edits to Draft:David Wicht and failure also to address the reviewers' concerns of getting the article to mainspace. While watching the discussion at Trent's talk page, I saw you're reluctant to good faith advice given to you but remember "we don't treat paid editors as trash rather we correct them also" (POV). I will edit the draft for you and you see the changes if what you couldn't do. I will also advise you to desist from paid editing as it will totally reflect your work here. Wikipedia is all about volunteering and per me and must editors, we learn more here and following that learning, wouldn't make us deceive wikipedia by turning what we learn daily (WP:CIVILITY, following people's opinion per WP:CONSENSUS, and knowing what we call reliable source plus all other policies). They will help you also. Regards. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 08:14, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

to echo @SafariScribe here, as well as @Timtrent @Jay @Theroadislong and others who have tried to help you throughout this. Wicht's article has been deemed not ready for publication and Film Afrika does not meet N:ORG. Adding more sources doesn't help that. It's disengenous to say you haven't received help or that there's a cabal-we have tried to help. We are not required to do work on behalf of your client, nor are you. You can either continue to try on these to address the issues raised, or you can edit elsewhere in the project where you're not being paid. That's your decision, but my personal recommendation is you decide whether you want to be member of the community or not. Star Mississippi 12:36, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi, I have edited and improved the draft. However, @Karinvanderlaag, like Star Mississippi said, you decide also to join Wikipedia volunteering because it isn't going to be easy Ike this again. It's neither a threat (never), it a friendly advice. Safari Scribe^{Edits! Talk!} 12:40, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Huge thanks are due from you to @SafariScribe, who has turned a frightful mess into a submitted draft which now has a chance of acceptance. I have a firm suggestion to you that you do not submit an invoice to your employer for this draft. Doing to would, in my view, be fraud.

I suggest you cease all action on your other paid draft until you have learned how to work here. Indeed I suggest you cease and desist from paid editing. The skills you have exhibited so far suggest that you are not understanding sufficient of the task before you to succeed.

I perceive you as not being here to create an encyclopaedia and that you are here for a financial motive. I will tell you clearly now that your attempt to solicit me to produce paid work has been passed to the relevant team who will take action or not at their sole discretion. I have included in that report the fact that you asked me where you night find editors who would work for pay.

We are charged to assume good faith in our dealings with all editors. I can tell you that mine has been stretched past its elastic limit.

You needs to make a decision either to work well as a volunteer, or to work on some other project. I suggest you withdraw from paid editing.

Thank you from me, first and foremost to @SafariScribe, and then, In no particular order to @Star Mississippi, @Theroadislong @Jay and others too numerous to mention who have tried to offer you advice and help, and had their help misunderstood or ignored. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 12:55, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Just wondering whether this is in line with wikipedias policy of legal threats?

And also the fraud comment?

I perceive you as not being here to create an encyclopaedia and that you are here for a financial motive. I will tell you clearly now that your attempt to solicit me to produce paid work has been passed to the relevant team who will take action or not at their sole discretion. I have included in that report the fact that you asked me where you night find editors who would work for pay. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 14:37, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

take action? Karinvanderlaag (talk) 14:37, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

financial motive?

Do you know what or what not I am or am not getting paid? Karinvanderlaag (talk) 14:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi Thanks very much for your edit and improvement. I do not pretend to know what I don't know. Hence the request for guidance. I had no intention whatsoever to "solicit" you as a paid worker. I realised that being a paid editor myself seemed to be deeply frowned upon and was merely asking how wikipedia pages get created? Who decides (amongst the volunteers) who gets accepted and not? That is why I suggested that this page be written by an experienced volunteer. I suppose it was a strange question which could by viewed by experience volunteer editors as a conflict of interests, but in my exasperation I asked the question because I to date have not received an answer as to how wikipedia articles appear and who is allowed to write them, let alone who or which number of who's approve them. I believe these to be transparent questions which deserve transparent answers without being shipped off into a link or a snide remark on not being experienced enough to be "in the know". I was on wikipedia unpaid and did make edits before. So it seems I was "one of the team" until I did what was required and declared that I was getting paid. After that all bets were off as to how I was treated when it came to "help". I am not sure how to proceed now with Film Afrika. I have written a page. What will happen to this page? Do I hand it over to someone else who is not getting paid? Advice please? And thanks again for your edit and improvement.

Kind Regards

In the spirit of learning and acknowledging that none of us know everything.

Karin Karinvanderlaag (talk) 10:37, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi be very careful of using the word "fraud" when you yourselves have a very complicated system of declaration for paid writers. I would see this as a personal attack. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I did not use the word fraud @Karinvanderlaag

Please stop attacking literally everyone who tried to help you. You're welcome to file a Deletion Review if you think @Explicit's close was wrong, otherwise drop the matter. Star Mississippi 13:59, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes apologies, it wasn't you it was Tim Trent "doing so, would in my view be fraud"

Huge thanks are due from you to @SafariScribe, who has turned a frightful mess into a submitted draft which now has a chance of acceptance. I have a firm suggestion to you that you do not submit an invoice to your employer for this draft. Doing to would, in my view, be fraud. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 14:34, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@SafariScribe thank you for your offer to edit. I entered Wikipedia unpaid and curious to learn the system. When told to declare payment I did so. I had no idea that paid editing was so frowned upon. We live and we learn. "To know is to know that you know nothing. That is the meaning of true knowledge." Socrates.

I am always in pursuit of knowledge not money.

Thanks for your advice and help. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 10:26, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Wicht has been accepted

Almost none of your original words remain. I feel it would be inappropriate for you to ask Wicht for payment.

As a side issue, the article about you has been deleted. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 15:54, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

@Timtrent Thank you for your edit. I hope you have time to read my other comments to @Star Mississippi and @SafariScribe

I remember asking you about my own Wikipedia page Karin van der Laag and how it appeared.

I did not get a clear answer. Perhaps you could answer me now.

Perhaps you could also answer why it has been deleted, specifically now.

Kind Regards

Karin Karinvanderlaag (talk) 10:40, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Karin Van Der Laag#Karin van der Laag page deletion:~:text=explanation immediatley from-,Tim Trent,-and Theroadislong. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:08, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

If you have difficulty with any editor's behaviour, including my own, you have the absolute right to voice that complaint at WP:ANI. What you may not do is to continue to cast aspersions about the behaviour nor the motivations of any editor. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:42, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Yet you continue to cast aspersions about my behaviour? And threaten to block me. And delete my page, conveniently on the same day I challenge you. And then do block me.

Hardly a fair fight don't you think? Karinvanderlaag (talk) 14:41, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@Karinvanderlaag @Timtrent neither deleted the article nor blocked you. Please stop accusing them of everything that happened. The community made the decision to delete the article about you (it's not "your page" any more than the article about Wicht was) and @RegentsPark blocked you (Correctly). Star Mississippi 14:47, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

May 2024

Please stop. If you continue to add unsourced or poorly sourced content, as you did at Cape Town (TV series), you may be blocked from editing. Theroadislong (talk) 13:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I am in this series. Would you like the link to the scene? Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:36, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

You can also have the personal conversation between me and Boris Kodjo from his instagram account Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

As well as my dealings with Deon Meyer Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you add unsourced or poorly sourced material to Wikipedia, as you did at Zoop in Africa. Theroadislong (talk) 13:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I cast this series, would you like the link to IMDB Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:37, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

WP:IMDB is NOT a reliable source for anything on Wikipedia. Theroadislong (talk) 13:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Please stop attacking other editors, as you did on User talk:Timtrent. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Comment on content, not on other contributors or people. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:38, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Please look at your own "they are taking the piss" comment that you put into AI and turned into something about micturation and be very careful about who you block Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Also please be very careful about your libellous comments about whether I can read English with an English and Drama degree Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:40, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Still waiting Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:50, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Waiting patiently for your reply Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:47, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@Mississippi mentioned that my being paid would be "fraud"

This is not only a personal but a libellous and legal attack

Tread carefully Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:54, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you make personal attacks on other people, as you did at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Karin Van Der Laag. Comment on content, not on fellow editors. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:40, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

It has all been screengrabbed, whether you delete, block or ban me Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:40, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Please take your own advice. I was humiliated as to my ability to read and my competence as a writer. I have screengrabbed all of this and will be using it as evidence of how English and Drama graduates get treated by freelance unpaid wikipedia volunteer editors who think they have the right to block and ban when they are sarcastic and humiliating and yet swing the axe willy nilly as they please at innocent writers trying to publish legitimate articles.

Look at the log in your own eyes, sirs. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Waiting patiently for your reply about your personal attacks on me. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Unfortunately my English and Drama degree do not afford me the knowledge to come up with the little hand and exclamation mark to alert whoever is above you both to block you both for the personal attacks you made on me: this editor Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:49, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Still waiting Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:50, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Your recent edits to User talk:Karinvanderlaag could give Wikipedia contributors the impression that you may consider legal or other "off-wiki" action against them, or against Wikipedia itself. Please note that making such threats on Wikipedia is strictly prohibited under Wikipedia's policies on legal threats and civility. Users who make such threats may be blocked. If you have a dispute with the content of any page on Wikipedia, please follow the proper channels for dispute resolution. Please be sure to comment on content, not contributors, and where possible make specific suggestions for changes supported by reliable independent sources and focusing especially on verifiable errors of fact. Thank you. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 13:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Terrified now. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Do your job and help people Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:45, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Put my page back up. You removed it out of spite. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 13:45, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Final Warning

I'm not going to be the one to block you @Karinvanderlaag given my having reviewed the drafts, but knock off the personal attacks and article ownership or you absolutely will be blocked. @Timtrent has done nothing but try to help you improve your clients' articles. Star Mississippi 13:53, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@Star Mississippi If @Karinvanderlaag stops pursuing her current course of abuse and threats, and starts to behave collegially, I will have no difficulty in helping her in any article or draft for which she does not expect to receive payment. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:12, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

May 2024

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for making legal threats or taking legal action.

You are not allowed to edit Wikipedia while the threats stand or the legal action is unresolved.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please review Wikipedia's guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  RegentsPark (comment) 14:14, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:No_legal_threats and, if you wish to continue editing here, pay attention to the section Wikipedia:No_legal_threats#Conclusion_of_legal_threat.RegentsPark (comment) 14:16, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@RegentsPark In the event that the legal threat is removed, and also that the abusive behaviour is addressed correctly, I will have no objection to the editor being unblocked. I have said above that I will work with them on articles where they do not expect a reward in these circumstances.

Lest an assumption is made, I would like to make it clear that I did not approach you in any manner regarding their behaviour, either directly or indirectly, as my edit history will show them and you. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:23, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I know you didn't, @Timtrent, but I was in the middle of taking them to ANI to precisely this end, only RegentsPark got there first.

And FWIW, I for one would object to the block being lifted. The badgering, threats, and overall belligerent attitude is hardly conducive to collaborative working. -- DoubleGrazing (talk) 14:32, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@DoubleGrazing I see the belligerent attitude to be a part of the abusive behaviour. I apologise for my lack of clarity. If collegiality prevails I will not object. Of course it is not my decision to make, and an appeal is the precursor to anyone's decision. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I see sarcasm as part of a belligerent attitude and I have received plenty snarky comments from all the editors I have dealt with. In that case they should be sanctioned and warned and blocked as much as I should be. I started out asking innocent questions and was humiliated as to my qualifications and my ability to read and was told I was "taking the piss" to which was added a schoolboy quip about "micturation" Not appreciated. Not certainly in line with the high standards of wikipedia Karinvanderlaag (talk) 14:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

What does FWIW mean? Karinvanderlaag (talk) 14:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

For what it's worth. Theroadislong (talk) 14:50, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Karinvanderlaag (talk) 15:14, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I don't understand your comment. You did not approach me in any manner as regards the other editors behaviour? Yes that is true Karinvanderlaag (talk) 14:47, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Regent's Park. There are no legal threats from my side.

The legal threats accusing me of fraud and including words like "taking action" have all come from the other editors Karinvanderlaag (talk) 14:44, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@Karinvanderlaag I have a single piece of advice for you. Once any editor receives a block they are expected only to use their talk page in a manner to clarify their block and to appeal it. Other use is deprecated and may result in any administrator deciding to revoke talk page access of the blocked editor. That does not prevent the appeal of a block, but it makes it more complicated. Please take a pause and consider whether you will appeal. Then read the materials suggested in the block note, and make a good appeal. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 14:53, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I have and never had any intention of taking any legal action against Wikipedia or any of its editors.

Thanks

Karin Karinvanderlaag (talk) 16:29, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Further personal attacks

I strongly suggest you stop with further personal attacks, and concentrate on wording an unblock request, before talk page access is restricted. Theroadislong (talk) 14:50, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

Karinvanderlaag (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

I believe I should be unblocked because the commenting back and forth between myself and the editors got out of hand. I was innocently asking for advice and felt that I received sarcastic and humiliating comments. This escalated to where we are now. The editors then further insulted me on my academic qualifications and used some crude epithets to which I hit back. I was then accused of not following a civil code which I felt had already been broken. I do not feel the editors led by example. I was simply trying to create two articles and felt sabotaged and scape-goated because I admitted to being paid. I had come into the Wikipedia space, curious and eager to learn. I am an avid learner and reader and approach everything with an open mind. I did not feel my openness was reciprocated. There felt like a sense of knowing better and humiliating rather than helping those who don't know the system yet. I still don't know how to publish an article. When I got into robust discussions, editors got sensitive and pulled all kinds of rank and threatened to block me after they themselves had used words against me like "fraud" and "financial gain", accused me of soliciting them to do my work for them and talking about "taking action". When I mentioned that I was keeping a record of what they were saying, they accused me of breaking a legal wikipedia code, so it seems to me that they have an answer for everything and the unknowing rookie editor cannot win. To be honest the amount I am being paid does not begin to cover the abuse I have suffered at the hands of the editors. I have been working on and off on these projects for more than 2 years, because I like to learn new things, certainly not for financial gain and yet I was accused time and time again of being a paid editor and for that I was somehow vilified. I am very disappointed that Wikipedia takes this stance. I understood it to be a place where people could share information. The worst of all was that when I mentioned that my own page about me was on Wikipedia and had appeared with my knowledge, the editors first told me that this was not possible, then retracted that and then swiftly delelted it without giving me a chance to edit it properly. This was plainly spiteful because of the situation spoken of above. Many of my celebrity peers who have done much less than I have in the film and telelvision industry's have pages on Wikipedia and yet these three to four editors chose to gang up on me and delete my page, give me final warnings and threaten me. I am truly reeling and shocked. If any of my own behaviour seems uncivil, I can only say it was in defense of their attacks. The records speak for themselves, unless the clever editors have managed to delete what they don't want shown. Either way, please unblock me, and please re-instate my page, Karin van der Laag. One of the pages I was creating is finally up, but I would like to continue on my Film Afrika page and I would like to make changes to my own page which was poorly sourced by the original writer, with whom I have no connection or knowledge. Kind Regards. Karin van der Laag Karinvanderlaag (talk) 11:32 am, Today (UTC−4)

Accept reason:

Karinvanderlaag has withdrawn the legal threat RegentsPark (comment) 16:26, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Hi Karinvanderlaag. You were blocked for edits like this one where you imply that you are recording conversations for legal purposes. That construes a threat that you may take legal action and that is not permitted on Wikipedia. Additionally, though you were not blocked for this, your comments above show an unwillingness to work collegially with other editors. I suggest you explicitly state that you have no intention of taking legal action against other editors and, once unblocked, figure out how to get your content onto Wikipedia (reliable sourcing and working collaboratively are the key elements). RegentsPark (comment) 15:52, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

• I have unblocked you. My advice is to stay calm, even if you feel attacked, and focus on the content you would like to see. Best wishes. RegentsPark (comment) 16:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Thanks for the advice

Kind Regards

Karin Karinvanderlaag (talk) 16:30, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Legal Threats

I will not make legal threats to anyone at anytime and will abide by Wikipedia Rules. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 16:18, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Possible undeletion - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Karin Van Der Laag

If you believe that the discussion was mis-handled, or that the closer reached an incorrect conclusion, you may make a case for the reinstatement of the article by using Wikipedia:Deletion review. Please read the sections on Purpose and Instructions carefully. Then take your time and make your proposal.

I think the most important part of the process is stated as "Consider attempting to discuss the matter with the closer as this could resolve the matter more quickly. There could have been a mistake, miscommunication, or misunderstanding, and a full review may not be needed. Such discussion also gives the closer the opportunity to clarify the reasoning behind a decision. "

I wish you success. I am happy that you are unblocked. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 16:55, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you Tim.

Best wishes

Karin Karinvanderlaag (talk) 18:01, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Yes honest mistake. I thought I was contacting Explicit the way I was supposed to through trying to reverse articles that have been deleted. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 18:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Please be careful. I view this edit as an honest mistake. When a discussion is closed no-one may edit it unless the closer has more to add 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:37, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I doubt that the article is worth undeleting, it was such poor quality and you would only be allowed to suggest edits on the talk page, it would be better to start afresh at WP:AFC, but be advised that creating an autobiography is just about the most difficult task on Wikipedia (in 16 years I can't recall many successful attempts) and you will not find many editors willing to help you. Theroadislong (talk) 18:36, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I have asked Explicit to assist you. In the meantime, though the instructions appear complex, if you take things step by step you will manage. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:37, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@Theroadislong A valid opinion to offer at DR is "Allow Re-Creation" I intend to offer that opinion. While my researches have shown few, if any, useful references, my spirit of fair play suggests that a chance should be given 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:39, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Note, please, that it is the wee small hours of the morning where Explicit is. Patience is needed, please. 🇺🇦 Fiddle^Timtrent Faddle^Talk to me 🇺🇦 18:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Thank you very much Karinvanderlaag (talk) 18:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

@Theroadislong Thank you Karinvanderlaag (talk) 18:46, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

Many thanks for the advice. Karinvanderlaag (talk) 18:43, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

I agree about the quality. When it first came up I had to edit it a lot. I said that Isidingo was a movie and The Story of an African Farm was a series. I also understand that writing one's own wikipedia article is a bit silly... so let's see. For now. Goodnight.

Thanks for the help.

Kind Regards

Karin Karinvanderlaag (talk) 18:48, 30 May 2024 (UTC)